More on Mormon Defense League

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/faith/52329295-142/church-fair-mdl-defense.html.csp#.Tj1MdApGQHM.email

And they say there is no communism in America!  This sounds like a modern version of Joseph Smith, Jr.‘s and Brigham Young’s Mormon Militias–you know the ones who burnt down William Law‘s Expositor because he was going to expose in his new paper that Joseph Smith, Jr. (who had 48 wives at the time of his death) had tried to seduce the wife of William Law.  And, Brigham Young’s Mormon Militia that slaughtered over 200 people from Arkansas who were peacefully passing through Utah to California — known as the  Mountain Meadows Massacre that happened on September 11, 1857.  Smith’s wives are documented in No Man Knows My History: The Story of Joseph Smith by Fawn Brodie who was a renouned historian and whose book no good Mormon is supposed to read.  Duh!  Is that censorship?

Now the Mormon Defense League is going to infiltrate and attack freedom of speech and press by watering down criticisms of the church.  They claim that they will first give a warning, then go after the writer if things don’t change. 

If that’s what they want to do with all their power and money instead of helping stop the horrible spread of Mormon polygamy, then that’s their choice.  I lived within Mormon censorship for 20 years!  I hope there are some arrests made for going after journalists and depriving them of their right to research and free speech regarding Mormonism.  Mormons can’t whitewash all their history!

(See: facts about william law: joseph smith, jr.’s attempt to seduce law’s wife in headings/sidebar!–This shows that Joseph Smith, Jr. not only practiced polygamy but also polyandry with the wives of his closest associates wanting them to save half their love for their husbands and half for him!)  What a sideshow for a religiously, sexually obsessed megalomaniac! 

So, come after me Mormon Defense League.  I’ll knock you down one at a time with one hand tied behind my back!  THIS WHOLE “SPREAD THE PROPAGANDA ABOUT MORMONISM” STINKS!

Nancy Mereska, President
Stop Polygamy in Canada

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18 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Faye on August 6, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    From the mouth/words of my ex husband, the Catholic-cum-mormon [I refuse to use capitalization for this mind-numbing, incestuous sect!] as of the year 1992…’…the mormon’s worldwide,are worth billions of dollars…’. And why not? You ‘don’t get to ‘heaven’ if you do NOT give ten percent of your gross EVERY month. I expect the total may be more than billion now.
    However the good shall prevail!

    Reply

  2. Posted by David Farnsworth on August 8, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    I own a copy of Brodie’s biography. In fact I can see it from here as I write, sitting on my library shelf.

    Yet I am a member of the LDS (Mormon) church in good standing. How can this be? (But Brodie has long since been eclipsed by Richard Bushman’s biography written in 2004. I recommend it.)

    BTW, the MDL will probably not bother with you. For one thing, the MDL is not spoiling for a fight with anyone, just wants to help people see the truth about a religion and culture. Just like the Jewish Defense League.

    I suggest you tone down your lurid accusations. It does not help your credibility much.

    Reply

    • Posted by st0pp0lygamy on August 9, 2011 at 12:53 am

      For you to compare yourself with the Jewish Defense League is blasphemy. A boy with tuberculosis of the knee, who had hallucinary fevers started the Mormon church in 1820. Jewish people have been around since the beginning of time. The greatest harm for the Mormon church has come from within–people who “apostatized” and told the truth about what goes on within its ranks–mainly women! The Jews have been marginalized, slaughtered and discriminated against since God chose them to be His people. To the Mormons, everyone, even a Jew is a “gentile” if he/she is not Mormon. Common language has separated the “Jew and the gentile” for millenia.

      I’m not worried about my credibility when it comes to your “chastisement.” If you are in Utah, please help your shiftless AG Mark Shurtleff change his tune on his idea of “not prosecuting a religious belief.” Polygamy is not a “religious” belief. It is a crime and it stinks. You know it. I know it. Please direct your venom elsewhere. Don’t use your apathy to help Utah decriminalize polygamy. You will be the laughing stock of the world!

      Nancy Mereska, President
      Stop Polygamy in Canada

      P.S. This is like knocking down one of those punching balloons that kids used to play with years ago. Anyone else want to “bounce” up?

      Reply

  3. Nancy,

    The Mormon Defense League intends to correct those organizations/publications/politcal figures that intentionally malign or misrepresent the LDS Church, and provide accuract information to reporters who commit innocent errors of fact. Our objective is to ensure accurate coverage and representation, and to counter bigotry. In all of our efforts, we intend to do so politely. Occassionally, we may inform our members so that they can join the chorus of voices regarding subjects of concern where the Church is being maligned.

    An excellent example of a misrepresentation is your comment that links a tragic and horrible event perpetrated by local members in a confusing time of war to the efforts of our peaceful organization that seeks to help ensure accuracy in the media and amongst comments from public personalities.

    You have dedicated at least a portion of your time to ending polygamy in Canada, a decision of conscience that neither MDL nor anyone else has the right to deny you. You certainly have the right to have your voice heard, but we do ask that you be accurate in your representations.

    As you know, the Church excommunicates members of he Church who practice polygamy, and any member who is a polygamist must legally sever their spousal relationships in order to join the LDS Church (without thereby avoiding their responsibility to care for the former spouce(s) or children that were part of those plural marriages). Polygamy was officially ended more than a century ago by the LDS Church, and I know several LDS members who share your feelings about ending polygamy, so you will find yourself in at least some sympathetic company from certain “Mormons” if you can find yourself to stepping beyond what some would argue is a personal bias, and be careful to not intentionally malign a potential source of support. In short, Mormons do NOT support the practice of polygamy!

    Also, please understand that MDL.org is not aligned in any official way with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, other than through the fact that our volunteers seek to help defend it and its leaders from misrepresentation etc.

    If there are any facts or representations that you would like to better understand before you make additional public comments, we would be happy to help direct you to reliable sources.

    Kind regards,

    John L.

    Reply

    • Posted by st0pp0lygamy on August 9, 2011 at 12:30 am

      So, you are not “sligned in any official way with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” and you are “defend(ing)” it with a chorus of volunteers. How noble. Why don’t you turn that chorus around and look for the dumpster diving women and children of polygamy who scrounge for food in the streets of your cities? Or, the young men and boys who have no place to live and have been abandoned? You also encourage any member “in good standing” to divorce his/her spouse if they are leaving your almighty church. Were you also behind the horrendous campaigns against Prop 8 in California? Get a grip. Under that vaneer of polished perfection is wormwood. Charles Huffham Dickens would have had a field day!

      Nancy Mereska, President
      Stop Polygamy in Canada

      Reply

      • Nancy,

        I am perplexed at what you are saying. Please help me understand.

        Are you implying that Mormons are responsible for the “dumpster diving women and children of polygamy who scrounge for food in the streets of [our] cities”? Where are these cities, and how would you advise we help them? I am happy to help in any way that I can. If there are homeless children from any cause, I would like to know about it.

        I believe that you have been misinformed, and if I can help you get better information, I am happy to do so. “Mormons”, also known as “members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” are in no way associated with what are often incorrectly referred to “Fundamentalist Mormons” (individuals who self identify as such but who are in NO WAY associated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and are in fact disavowed by the Church). These organizations are what produce what is known as the “lost boys” you refer to.

        You make an unsubstantiated claim that the institutional Church somehow encourages members who leave to divorce their spouse. If you have some evidence of the same, please post it so that we can review the information. I am aware that this claim has been made but no one has provided any evidence of such. The Church certainly does not teach that, and in fact there are references in the Bible that a believing spouse can help with the salvation of a non-believing spouse.

        Finally, I am not sure if it is a typo and that you meant to say the Church was in favor of proposition 8 when you are against it, but I can assure you that the Church was in fact a strong supporter of proposition 8. The Church is a strong proponent of families, and we will continue to be so. If you are opposed to proposition 8, I would find this curious given your obvious strong feelings against polygamy.

        The truth is that I sense that you have some emotional reactions to Mormons, which I assume is borne of your ingnorance of the facts. If you do not agree with our beliefs, I certainly grant you the right, but you should be sure that your opinions are based on fact, and not on erroneous information. I strongly encourage you to visit http://www.fairlds.org or http://www.en.fairmormon.org where you can research well documented sources of criticisms and responses and better inform yourself regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you have specific questions that you would like answered so that you are well informed

        To repeat what I have said before, in response to the stated purposes of your organization, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not practice polygamy, and in fact excommunicates anyone who attempts to practice it. We in fact do what can be done by any religious body, and apply the harshest penalty we have at our disposal to anyone involved in polygamy.

        Kind regards,

        John L.

        John L.

      • Posted by st0pp0lygamy on August 9, 2011 at 1:26 pm

        Then get rid of Section 132 in your “scripture” book Doctrine & Covenants How many wives (concubines) do you want to have in heaven to keep eternally pregnant so you can be “god” of your own world? Get rid of your teaching that God cursed Caen with a black skin and all blacks are descendants of Caen. Get rid of your teaching that aboriginal skin is reddish brown because God cursed Laman with that colour of skin because he rebelled against his father, Lehi–a myth in a stolen manuscript. The first high-profile marital separation in the LDS Church was when Lucy (Joseph Smith’s wife) took her children and moved across the street from the Nauvoo, Illinois hotel they lived in because the rooms of the hotel were filling up with Smith’s concubines. Yes, I’ve seen couples split because one left the LDS religion!

        Nancy Mereska, President
        Stop Polygamy in Canada

  4. Posted by David Farnsworth on August 9, 2011 at 1:21 am

    I repeat. Tone done your lurid accusations.

    The LDS Church has not allowed polygamy for over a century. Anyone who attempts to do so is excommunicated. The polygamists in Utah and elsewhere are not LDS. We are not responsible for their antisocial acts. (Although we are of course willing to take in any persons who seek our help.)

    Surely you know this. And yet you continue to attack us.

    The LDS Church does not force divorces between believers and non-believers. (I know many such couples who are happily married.)

    Surely you know this. And yet you continue to attack us.

    There is no evidence that Joseph Smith hallucinated, or had epileptic fits, or any other mental difficulties. These are just canards by people attempting to explain in some way, any way, the marvelous things he wrote and saw in his lifetime.

    Surely you know this. And yet you continue to attack us.

    You are sounding too much like those rabid people who the Jewish Defense League has to fight against. Do you really want to be like such?

    Yours,

    David Farnsworth

    Reply

  5. Posted by Perle on August 9, 2011 at 5:03 am

    “An excellent example of a misrepresentation is your comment that links a tragic and horrible event perpetrated by local members in a confusing time of war to the efforts of our peaceful organization that seeks to help ensure accuracy in the media and amongst comments from public personalities. ”
    David, are you just nuts?
    This was the “leader of the Church”… THE PROPHET…not a “tragic and horrible EVENT perpetrated by LOCAL members in a CONFUSING TIME OF WAR”.
    Pls. just go away….

    Reply

    • Perle,

      Your information is not correct. The book titled “Massacre at Mountain Meadows” published by Oxford Press is the most informative books on the subject.

      Brigham Young had no hand in the affair and in fact attempted to stop in when he learned, too late, that any attack on the party was contemplated. Itwas the result of a combination of factors, including war time rhetoric of many amongst a people in a defenseless outlying area, an impending army encroaching on Mormons who had already been driven from two states, one of which was under an extermination order by Governor Boggs of Missouri, against a company of people who had already murdered a Mormon Apostle (Parley P. Pratt, assasinated in Arkansas from which many in the party originated), tensioned rhetoric by some in the party of victims who claimed to have been among those who had murdered the prophet Joseph Smith, and fear that the party would proceed to California and stir up people there to attack the settlements in Southern Utah. Those who made the decision to attack did so on their own, and it absolutely was NOT under any direction of Brigham Young or any other general leader of the Church.

      I say this only to contextualize the subject, not to condone it. What happened there was tragic, horrible, and inexcusable, but it was not deliberate in any way on the part of the “Church”. As I read the account of what happened, I became physically ill. I trust God will deal justly with those resonsible, but I am grateful that it does not in any way include the general leaders of the Church. I am afraid you have been misinformed on this point.

      Kind regards,

      John L.

      Reply

  6. Posted by David Farnsworth on August 9, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    I did not write that. It was my colleague John L., whom I know quite well, and is a fine upstanding person. You should pay attention when he talks.

    However, I will go away, as you seem to be incorrigible in your determination to cast events in LDS history in the worst possible light.

    Or to make things up out of whole cloth…

    David Farnsworth

    Reply

  7. I write the following as the system seems unable to allow me to reply directly to the above post where Nancy says “Then get rid of Section 132 in your “scripture” book Doctrine & Covenants How many wives (concubines) do you want to have in heaven to keep eternally pregnant so you can be “god” of your own world? Get rid of your teaching that God cursed Caen with a black skin and all blacks are descendants of Caen. Get rid of your teaching that aboriginal skin is reddish brown because God cursed Laman with that colour of skin because he rebelled against his father, Lehi–a myth in a stolen manuscript. The first high-profile marital separation in the LDS Church was when Lucy (Joseph Smith’s wife) took her children and moved across the street from the Nauvoo, Illinois hotel they lived in because the rooms of the hotel were filling up with Smith’s concubines. Yes, I’ve seen couples split because one left the LDS religion!”

    Nancy, Section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants outlines the law of eternal marriage. It teaches that you and your husband can some day be “sealed” in a covenant relationship with God such that the bonds of fidelity you enjoy in this life will continue in the hereafter. I find it to be a very comforting doctrine that God would not separate us at death, but that our family ties can continue. It also addresses the situation where God, on rare occassion, commands plural marriage on some limited basis as he did with Abraham and others. However, that is not the current command of God. The information in the section is still instructive, so there is no need to rid ourselves of it even though we do not practice plural marriage today and are in fact commanded that we never have but one spouse.

    Also, the notion of being a “god of your own world” is a mischaracterization of the principle of Theosis, which has deep historic roots in Christianity and even Judaism. It is that our loving Heavenly Father desires for His children, like all fathers desire, to become like Him. It was taught by the early Church Fathers, and was taught by Christ himself wherein he taught that we become “joint heirs” with Christ. I am confident that, if properly understood, you would have no objection to this beautiful principle of personal growth and generosity by our Father.

    Mormons do not believe in what is referred to as the “Curse of Cain” doctrine. Anyone who has taught this principle was in error. You are correct to condemn it as a false teaching.

    I understand that you feel that the Book of Mormon is somehow a fabrication, but I challenge you to read it, not just rely upon characterizations from others about it (including me). While you may not come around to my point of view, I am confident you will have a softened view towards it if you read it, as it beautifully supports the teachings of the Bible, and helps establish it as the Word of God. It is plain and precious in how it expounds on Christian values.

    Regarding your claims that Lucy moved because the Nauvoo House was filling up with Smiths concubines has no basis in fact. If you have some reference, I would be pleased to learn of it.

    Again, best wishes to you as you seek to press forward with your conscientious effort to establish for Canada what you see as a moral imperative.

    Kind regards,

    John L.

    Reply

    • Posted by st0pp0lygamy on August 9, 2011 at 7:41 pm

      I am so surprised when none of you corrected me when I erroneously referred to Joseph Smith, Jr.’s wife as “Lucy” when in fact Emma Hale Smith was Joseph’s wife. Yes, she was devoted to him, but she worked quietly against polygamy (p. 343 No Man Knows My History) All 49 wives of Joseph Smith, Jr. are listed on pp. 335-336 of the same book. It takes quite the sexually-obsessed egotistical megalomaniac to pen a “scripture” that damns his own wife if she doesn’t accept his inability to control his lascivious desires, doesn’t it? And, so it goes, century after century with Mormons of all stripes and creeds revering a man who today would be stripped of all his “power” and driven to ruin.

      You men can be as “harsh” as you want on those who practice polygamy within the mainstream ranks because you like doing that–holding your courts and pronouncing your judgements. Have you ever read the fairy tale, “The King’s New Clothes”?

      And, my regards to you,

      Nancy Mereska, President
      Stop Polygamy in Canada

      Reply

      • Nancy,

        I am very grateful to be able to discuss these issues with you, and to add clarity to your current understanding. I chuckle that I failed to catch your error regarding Emma. Lucy was in fact his mother. It guess that proves that, like the prophets of the LDS Church, we are all fallible .

        Fawn Brodie’s estimates regarding the number of Joseph’s wives are
        exhaggerated. The exact number is not known, but it is estimated that it was in the neighborhood of 30 or some few more, many of whom were sealed (married) to Joseph posthumously.

        We had a presentation by Valarie Hudsen last Thursday at a conference of LDS scholars who gave clarity to the issue of Polygamy which I will attempt to summarize. I will provide a link once it is available online.

        Valerie’s presentation essentially cast Polygamy in the light of Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac. In the case of Abraham, Isaac and Abraham both were asked by God to do that which had previously been commanded to NOT do (take human life). Yet, Abraham had to be willing to sacrifice his only namesake, and Isaac had to be willing to lay down his life to be obedient. It was a test for both. In similar fashion, Mrs. Hudson argues, polygamy was a test of sacrifice for the Church as a whole, certainly for the women, and arguably for the men. That test is now over, and there is no need to revisit it, as it is now past just and Abraham and Isaac did not need to ascend the mount repeatedly after having passed their test. In the case of Abraham, the counter test was murder. In the case of Joseph, the test was monogamy/adultery.

        As an individual, I do not expect that the Church will ever again be commanded to practice polygamy. I anticipate that this is now an anomolous matter for history.

        That said, your comments indicate something of disdain for Joseph Smith. I strongly suggest that you familiarize yourself with what he actually taught, and become familiar with evidences of his character from beyond detractors of the Church. Joseph was merely a man, but he was in fact a man of great character who did impossible things in impossible circumstances. Had he been a man seeking purian interests, he could have done so without the guise of religious cover and never have been forced to endure the persecutions that followed him. It makes no sense for me that he would take actions that would heap persecutions upon himself if he was simply interested in sex. There are many examples of men in history who have been guilty of repeated adultery without significant consequence. In fact, at the same conference I just mentioned, there was a presentation by Ugo Perego, a renouned geneticist, who has indicated there is no evidence that Joseph Smith every fathered a single child from any polygamous marriage, which seems to significantly weaken any claim that his reasons for polygamous marriages were about sex.

        Again, I wish you the very best in your sincere and righteous efforts.

        Kind regards,

        John L.

  8. Posted by Faye on August 9, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    OH!This kind of ‘reprimand’ never fails to astound me. Married to a Catholic-cum-flds-cum-mormon for twenty years I am well aware of the consequences of not being a ‘good’ flds/mormo.. The query I have however to you, all of you, is WHY have a “defence league” at all? Surely you are comfortable in your mormon clothing to fend off all slights? As an Anglican since teen years I am aware that countless christians over the centuries have endured massive abuse; so why would your sect need a vast “defence” if you are comfortable in your ‘faith’ already. It doesn’t matter if you wish to avoid this topic as I may not have time to read/respond at present…Cheers, and have a superlative day.

    Reply

  9. Faye,

    MDL.org was formulated to help correct the unintentional as well as deliberate misrepresentations and misunderstandings perpetuated in the press and by prominent individuals. We are very comfortable in our faith, as is evidenced by our enduring 200 years of various levels of bigotry and persecution, including the Missouri extermination order that was not recinded until1976 (see here: http://www.quaqua.org/extermination.htm). That said, we recognize that it does others learning about us a disservice when falsehoods are left unchallenged such that harmful stereotypes are repeated. As such, we seek to put down misrepresentations so that individuals can judge the Church correctly on its merits.

    To be clear, our aim is primarily to ensure that information about the Church in public venues be accurate, and that all forms of bigotry be condemned. We stand with other faiths, such as the Jewish ADL, the Catholic League etc. in seeking to ensure that individuals of conscience are not subject to biase based in ignorance or persecution based on willful bigotry.

    Given your marriage to someone associated with the FLDS, a disavowed offshoot of the original and prominent Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you should be very aware that the two are very distinct and separate, and that the Utah based Church does not in any way condone or accept polygamy or its adherents, and in fact excommunicates any who seek to practice plural marriage. It is precisely this type of confused associations that MDL.org seeks to clarify.

    I hope this helps you understand.

    Kind regards,

    John L.

    Reply

  10. “A boy with tuberculosis of the knee, who had hallucinary fevers started the Mormon church in 1820.”

    Actually, Joseph Smith contracted osteomyelitis, not tuberculosis. And it wasn’t in his knee, it was lodged in the marrow of his left leg. And as far as I am aware hallucination is not a symptom of osteomyelitis. I am unaware of any other alleged “hallucinatory fevers” that Joseph Smith experienced. If you have any other sources to support this argument, I would love to see them. And even if Joseph’s temporary bought with osteomyelitis was responsible for any “hallucinatory fevers”, Joseph Smith contracted the disease long before 1830 (not 1820) when he restored/founded the Church of Christ. So I don’t think that such can account for his claimed visions (especially when those visions include tangible objects such as golden plates that others handled and hefted).

    Furthermore, Fawn Brodie’s research is 60 years old, and a lot of new information on the life of Joseph Smith has come out since then. Richard Bushman’s “Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling” is a fantastic piece of scholarship on the life of Joseph Smith, and has, I believe, replaced Brodie as the definitive biography of Joseph Smith. For an example of how Brodie’s research has been either supplanted or in some cases directly falsified, I would recommend the following:

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700150651/DNA-solves-a-Joseph-Smith-mystery.html?pg=1

    http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/volume-12-number-1-2011/seeker-s-guide-historical-accounts-joseph-smith-s-first-vision

    I would be very leery on using Fawn Brodie as the final source of the number of Joseph Smith’s wives. While she puts the number at 49, as Nancy has repeatedly reminded us, the actual number of wives, based on the research of Todd Compton and other historians of Mormonism, is actually somewhere around 33. The question is still open, but Brodie’s number of 49 is generally agreed to be inflated beyond the available evidence.

    Reply

    • Posted by st0pp0lygamy on August 10, 2011 at 1:32 am

      And Richard Bushman is a WELL PAID, Mormon scholar. “33” is still more than one. “33” is still polygamy. “33” is still a crime! Please remember that God created Adam and Eve–not Adam and Eve and Eve and Eve. . . . . Joseph Smith, Jr had absolutely no respect for the Bible (attempted to rewrite it to suit his ideas) and no respect for the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt not commit adultery meant nothing to him. ’nuff said.

      Nancy Mereska, President
      Stop Polygamy in Canada

      Reply

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